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AI Mastering?

He brought up an important point... that it's art. That means there's no such thing as a best-mastered version of your song, so don't worry thinking that there is.

Whenever someone would send me one of their songs for mixing or mastering input, I would reply, "Here's what I would do with it." I'd never say, "Here's what you should do with it," because art is subjective.

A couple colleagues of mine always mixed and mastered their albums with a relatively dark tone. It was a little too dark for my taste, but everything still balanced well and none of their customers complained.

I still master my own productions using plugins like I've been doing for the last 30 years, but only recently did I figure out how to use cue sends in Cubase, making it super convenient for me to A-B reference tracks. I output the reference track on a Cue send so that it is not affected by any processing on the master bus. That has helped me considerably with my last few albums/EPs of cover songs. (If I didn't use those reference tracks, my projects would have come out a little congested in the 100hz-500hz range because I do like my mud!) 🐖
 
BDT said:
A nice and informative video featuring a enough test listeners to provide statistically significant results:
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I liked the bit about "sidechaining" and wanted to experiment with it...
But, when rummaging through old project files, I soon realized that I've never recorded anything where my bass just follows the kick drum :LOL:
 
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AWWJ said:
But, when rummaging through old project files, I soon realized that I've never recorded anything where my bass just follows the kick drum :LOL:
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It doesn't have to. The sidechaining just quickly ducks the bass track so that the kick occupies that sonic space.

Sidechaining can also be used for a rhythmic effect, which has been popular in pop music for a while now. I remember the first time I heard it and how it was like fingernails on a chalkboard to me. I always hated hearing compression. It literally took me years to get used to it. Eventually I had to use sidechain compression on my own contemporary pop track. I used a simplified kick beat (not routed to the mix) to trigger sidechain compression on a synth subgroup. I timed the release to give the song a subtle pumping backbeat.
 
Polkasound said:
He brought up an important point... that it's art. That means there's no such thing as a best-mastered version of your song, so don't worry thinking that there is.
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Totally agree. In fact, I think this extends to mixes, as well.

In Rick Beato's recent interview with Todd Rundgren, I was pleased to hear Todd say he doesn't believe in spending time obsessing over reverbs and other mixing details that ultimately make very little difference to the listening audience.

Listeners have no choice but to accept the mix you give them. They automatically assume it's intentional and the way the song is meant to sound. There are hundreds, probably thousands, of poorly mixed songs that became beloved favorites by listeners the world over.

Are there bad mixes and masters? Of course. But the range of what's good or acceptable is very broad - the mix just needs to be in the ballpark. Engineers and music professionals may pick apart a mediocre mix or master, but the average listener won't care as long as they're hearing a good song with a strong artist performance. A superb mix/master cannot save a boring song or lackluster performance.

Remember all the hubub over Billie Eilish's "When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go" 2019 album? The songs were mixed with an excessively heavy low end and unconventional dynamics. It was a deliberate creative choice, but many music professionals bristled at the sound. We all know how that turned out... among all its many triumphs, the album also snagged the Grammy for Best Engineered Album 😲
 
Nekujak said:
Remember all the hubub over Billie Eilish's "When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go" 2019 album? The songs were mixed with an excessively heavy low end and unconventional dynamics. It was a deliberate creative choice, but many music professionals bristled at the sound. We all know how that turned out... among all its many triumphs, the album also snagged the Grammy for Best Engineered Album 😲
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I remember that Billie's brother said something along the lines of:
"You can debate endlessly whether a different reverb in the bridge section at 1:58 would be better. If a listener listens to the song that far, it doesn't matter, because they already like the song".
I 100% agree.

And I agree with you to some extent: While most of the songs on this album are mixed really well, some of them (especially their biggest hit, "Bad Guy") are almost unlistenable on most hi-fi systems.
One of the worst low-ends in the history of sound recording.
Typical bedroom musician mix.
 
BDT said:
Typical bedroom musician mix.
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While the album was literally recorded and produced in a bedroom, it was mixed by pro engineer Rob Kinelski. He wasn't necessarily an A-list engineer, but he'd been around for many years, and had worked for studios before going independent. But I'm sure Finneas also influenced the direction of the mixes.

Here's a really detailed SoS article about how Kinelski mixed Eilish's album, and some of the gear he used.
 
Ok...
Put your heads together and tell me how to re-mix this;

Rock’n little juke joint on the south side of town
Where me’n all my friends like to get down
The beer is cold, the music's right
We're always there every Saturday night
A little black skirt came strollin’ in
Heels, hair, leggs and a kitten’s grin
Took to dancin’ with a sultry sway
Jaws started dropin’ all over the place
A little liquid courage n' money to burn
We all bought her drinks and took our turns
Must have danced till the break of dawn
Lord only knows how I got home
‘cause all I remember....

All I got was a kiss
Just a peck on the cheek
No name or number
Just enough to remember
How she smiled so sweet

Next Saturday night ol’ John was missin’
Busted his boat so he hadn’t gone fishin’
Bartender said he was missin’ work
And last week he was seen with that little black skirt
Thursday his wife, she was at the clinic
Raisn’ some fuss about cuttn’ off his ####
Said the marriage was over and he’s goin’ to Hell
Then she slapped a cop and they put her in jail
You know ol’ John, he had to post her bail
He’s got two black eyes ‘n stayin' at the motel
That girl left town, sure seems’a pitty
Nothin’ but trouble but she sure was pretty
then I remembered…

All I got was a kiss
Just a peck on the cheek
No name or a number
Just enough to remember
How she smiled so sweet
 

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AWWJ said:
Ok...
Put your heads together and tell me how to re-mix this;
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It's great that you're posting one of your songs, but doing it in this thread basically hijacks the original topic and intent of the thread.

You're likely to get more useful responses by posting it in the Recorded Songs (Mix and/or composition review) thread, which is intended for songs and critiques.

Also, if you're looking for help with a mix and/or mastering, you might also want to provide some context, like: what kind of sound were you trying to achieve with the mix, are you happy with the mix and master, what don't you like about the mix, what problems are you hearing, etc...

As was mentioned earlier in this thread, mixing and mastering is an art, and is subject to creative choices and intentional goals. If you tell us what kind of sound you were going for in your mix, or what parts of the mix you're unhappy with, then we can weigh in with some potentially useful comments.

Thanks!
 
Really...?

With regard to "Songwriting and Producing" I put myself out there as an amateur example.

I even provide a sample to work with.

But all you have to say is, "Get off my thread!"

Phffft....... My sincere apologies.
 
AWWJ said:
Really...?

With regard to "Songwriting and Producing" I put myself out there as an amateur example.

I even provide a sample to work with.

But all you have to say is, "Get off my thread!"

Phffft....... My sincere apologies.
Click to expand...

Sorry if this came out wrong.

1- The forum is indeed about Songwriting and Producing.

2- But there are multiple subforums, and multiple threads/topics exploring different situations or products in songwriting and producing.

3- This thread here is not my thread but it says on top:
AI Mastering? Thread starter - Reid Rosefelt - Start date: Feb 2, 2025

4- So, Reid wants to discuss AI Mastering, not Songwriting and Producing.

5- You started posting asking for feedback on your song, and you also said you do not use AI tools.

6- Therefore, trying to help, two members suggested you use the proper subforum for you to post your requests about songwriting and mixing.

7- So you can go to that subforum and start a new thread for people to join, or join one that is about Songwriting.

Hope this clarifies,

Andre
-------
VIC Tech support
 
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Reid Rosefelt said:
As part of their various subscription plans, they offer AI mastering.
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Ried,
What could "AI Mastering" do for my simple little blues-rock tune?
Can you give us an "example"???

On a Side Note; Isn't "Mastering" considered the final stage of "Production"?

Sincerely,
Dazed and Confused
 
AWWJ said:
Ried,
What could "AI Mastering" do for my simple little blues-rock tune?
Can you give us an "example"???

On a Side Note; Isn't "Mastering" considered the final stage of "Production"?

Sincerely,
Dazed and Confused
Click to expand...
As I said twice, I want a human being mastering my songs. There are five songs on the EP I'm working on now and they'll all be mixed by a pro.
 
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