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How do you generate ideas?

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DoubleTap

New member
Usually I generate ideas by staring blankly at a blank screen then fill in the blanks.

Sometimes I’ll try to hold onto a passing thought.

Occasionally I’ll look for patterns in something I’ve already done.

Once in a while I’ll start with something someone else has done and try to elaborate on it.

Never have I ever been hit by inspiration.

So how about you?
 
I'm a big fan of letting the singer have the ideas and me just solving problems and putting those ideas into the desired style. But if I have to... I'll just start with a generic groove or chord progression in the desired style and pound out a generic melody over it. That works fine for 10-second snippets of music for sample library walkthroughs, and sometimes even a song.

For lyrics... poets dead long enough for their works to be public domain. That's always been my first choice.
 
For me there are two types of "generating ideas:" one) is starting a song from scratch (or near scratch); and two) is working on a song that has already been worked on (and is beyond it's initial "spark" stage).

You mention "staring blankly at a blank screen," so I take it you mean generating lyrical ideas? Or do you also mean musical ideas (and you work with paper or a DAW)?

I HATE, HATE, HATE staring at a blank screen (or starting a song, lyrically or melodically, from "nothingness"), so I seldom use that as a starting point. Instead, I'm working off of lyrical and musical snippets I have either written down or recorded (and I am constantly recording written and musical notes in Evernote). Using this process, I'm developing a new tune from a spark that has already been ignited (so to speak, and even if ever so humble or grand).

Usually, if am am starting from a blank screen (or scratch) I'll usually think of prompts, as this is what helps me most. Prompts can be rhythmic, melodic, chordal, or lyrical (though I rarely start with lyrics).

Rarely, I will start from a purposely blank screen, but when I'm doing that, I let myself go wherever my muse takes me, I set a time limit (an hour at most), I work very fast, and I try lots of ideas. I see this very much a brainstorming session; that is, a time to generate ideas (and inspiration). Only later will I go back and review what I've come up with to see what inspires me.

Not saying any of the above is how one should do it, just how my songwriting process has evolved.

[edited a bit for clarity]
 
Fox said:
For me there are two types of "generating ideas:" one) is starting a song from scratch (or near scratch); and two) is working on a song that has already been worked on (and is beyond it's initial "spark" stage).

You mention "staring blankly at a blank screen," so I take it you mean generating lyrical ideas? Or do you also mean musical ideas (and you work with paper or a DAW)?

I HATE, HATE, HATE staring at a blank screen (or starting a song, lyrically or melodically, from "nothingness"), so I seldom use that as a starting point. Instead, I'm working off of lyrical and musical snippets I have either written down or recorded (and I am constantly recording written and musical notes in Evernote). Using this process, I'm developing a new tune from a spark that has already been ignited (so to speak, and even if ever so humble or grand).

Usually, if am am starting from a blank screen (or scratch) I'll usually think of prompts, as this is what helps me most. Prompts can be rhythmic, melodic, chordal, or lyrical (though I rarely start with lyrics).

Rarely, I will start from a purposely blank screen, but when I'm doing that, I let myself go wherever my muse takes me, I set a time limit (an hour at most), I work very fast, and I try lots of ideas. I see this very much a brainstorming session; that is, a time to generate ideas (and inspiration). Only later will I go back and review what I've come up with to see what inspires me.

Not saying any of the above is how one should do it, just how my songwriting process has evolved.

[edited a bit for clarity]
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Yes I was thinking particularly about words rather than music since I am more of a words guy and that tends to be my starting point. Do I have a process that I’m confident with? No, at least not for songs. So I’m fascinated to read about your process (and other people’s).

My OP was a bit off the top of my head and more of a sketch of some thoughts to start a conversation rather than a serious exposition. That’s also partly because I’m not confident with the processes I use etc etc.

Totally agree that prompts (and @DSmolken’s appropriation of historical material) are a much better way of doing things than a blank screen. Freestyling on snippets is a good idea - I’ve heard other people say that doing this while singing along to something they like on headphones can be a good way of getting going. And there’s the scat da-doo-doo method of getting a melodic line then filling it in later too.

But, I think - and this is a bit theoretical since I’m not confident etc etc - but when I think about great songs, they usually have a great idea at the heart of them that captures something, an emotion or an idea. And I suppose it’s that side of things that is most fascinating - anyone can write a crap song but writing a great song, now wouldn’t that be great?
 
Eeks...one thing that scares the hell of me (or should I say, "the songwriting out of me") is trying to write a great song. That'll send me into a state of utter collapse. So, I try to block all worries (or even the barest inkling of a thought) about greatness, and just go with what excites me.

That said, it can be cool to aim big, but I have to be careful with such grandiose intentions or I'm a soon-to-be dead deer in headlights. Actually, the book I mention in antoher post (Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert) has many good ideas about how to balance oneself on the wire of grandiosity.
 
Fox said:
Eeks...one thing that scares the hell of me (or should I say, "the songwriting out of me") is trying to write a great song. That'll send me into a state of utter collapse. So, I try to block all worries (or even the barest inkling of a thought) about greatness, and just go with what excites me.

That said, it can be cool to aim big, but I have to be careful with such grandiose intentions or I'm a soon-to-be dead deer in headlights. Actually, the book I mention in antoher post (Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert) has many good ideas about how to balance oneself on the wire of grandiosity.
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Yes absolutely. There no point trying to write something great since it’s too distracting.

But, songs do often have a simple idea or emotion at the heart of them, even something incomprehensible like Hotel California. Maybe that’s something I should think about a bit more.
 
For words: my favorite inspirations recently have been words that appeared in my head as I was waking up in the morning. It doesn't happen often enough but when it does I try to see what story it hints at. Usually it's just a few words but once it was a little chant that turned verbatim into the chorus of a song. I write it down; it might be months before I actually do anything with it. In a similar vein, sometimes my wife makes an offhand comment that I find catchy and I'll write it down to try to use later.

For music: it seems like there is always some musical phrase bouncing around in my head, though more often that not it's pretty banal. Sometimes I will grab an Apple Loop and start building something around it, and then take the Apple Loop out. You won't find that "step 1" in the finished product but it can unblock the flow a bit and get me started.
 
There have been times where I'm in a noisy environment (vacuum cleaner or noisy restaurant or whatever) and the radio will be barely audible, where I can make out a pulse and maybe hints of other elements, but can't actually recognize the song. I'm just hearing a vague idea of what the song might be doing.

I'll then try to imagine how the song actually goes, coming up with my own parts, as if I'm jamming with it. I might even get a lyric idea from what I think they're singing about.

What's weird is my parts are invariably not close at all to what the song actually was. Not even the same chord progression. And my lyric idea isn't from the actual song either. They're just kinda sorta what I thought I was hearing. In other words, my brain, with this fuzzy start, has come up with an idea completely my own.

I think it's like when MidJourney makes images, where it starts from noise, and then the first iteration is just fuzzy blobs, where if you stared at those blobs, you'd probably get ideas for a completely different image than what MidJourney is actually creating.
 
Mike Greene said:
There have been times where I'm in a noisy environment (vacuum cleaner or noisy restaurant or whatever) and the radio will be barely audible, where I can make out a pulse and maybe hints of other elements, but can't actually recognize the song. I'm just hearing a vague idea of what the song might be doing.

I'll then try to imagine how the song actually goes, coming up with my own parts, as if I'm jamming with it. I might even get a lyric idea from what I think they're singing about.

What's weird is my parts are invariably not close at all to what the song actually was. Not even the same chord progression. And my lyric idea isn't from the actual song either. They're just kinda sorta what I thought I was hearing. In other words, my brain, with this fuzzy start, has come up with an idea completely my own.

I think it's like when MidJourney makes images, where it starts from noise, and then the first iteration is just fuzzy blobs, where if you stared at those blobs, you'd probably get ideas for a completely different image than what MidJourney is actually creating.
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I know exactly what you're talking about. You only hear bits of a song, but not enough to recognize what key it's in, what the melody or chords are, or even what meter its in. So your brain starts filling in those blanks, and before you know it, you've got a great start to a new song.

That's usually when my friend will hold up her phone and use an app to identify the song, at which point I'll realize how bad my hearing has gotten.
 
Ideas can come from anywhere, but for me, the most consistently reliable source is other songs. If I hear a song that really resonates with me, I'll say to myself, "I want to write a song like that!" And what I really mean is, "I want to write a song that makes me feel the way this other song does."

It may be the chords, subject matter, musical style, use of lyrics, instrumentation, etc... Whatever it is about this other song that excites me becomes my jumping off point, and the rest evolves from there. By the time I'm done, what I've written usually doesn't even remotely resemble the other song, but I know how to trace the lineage.

Since I don't listen to Spotify or the radio much, this stuff usually hits me while I'm watching a movie. Most recently, there was a song I really liked in "Twisters", and immediately after watching, I set about writing a country-rock stomper in a similar vein. And of course, when I get briefs for songs, there is usually at least one reference song included, which serves as a roadmap.
 
Mike Greene said:
. . . What's weird is my parts are invariably not close at all to what the song actually was. Not even the same chord progression.
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In my experience, it's akin to the childhood game of Telephone: By the time the musical idea begins to take shape, it is several generations removed from where I thought I was going

Nekujak said:
. . . Whatever it is about this other song that excites me becomes my jumping off point, and the rest evolves from there. By the time I'm done, what I've written usually doesn't even remotely resemble the other song, but I know how to trace the lineage. . .
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Try as I might, it is not possible to remove my musical influences (which ebb & flow) from the songwriting process -- I may be wrong, but the completely blank slate (i.e., making up something out of whole cloth) is an unreachable concept.
(c.f. "reception theory")
 
DoubleTap said:
Yes I was thinking particularly about words rather than music since I am more of a words guy and that tends to be my starting point. Do I have a process that I’m confident with? No, at least not for songs. So I’m fascinated to read about your process (and other people’s).

My OP was a bit off the top of my head and more of a sketch of some thoughts to start a conversation rather than a serious exposition. That’s also partly because I’m not confident with the processes I use etc etc.

Totally agree that prompts (and @DSmolken’s appropriation of historical material) are a much better way of doing things than a blank screen. Freestyling on snippets is a good idea - I’ve heard other people say that doing this while singing along to something they like on headphones can be a good way of getting going. And there’s the scat da-doo-doo method of getting a melodic line then filling it in later too.

But, I think - and this is a bit theoretical since I’m not confident etc etc - but when I think about great songs, they usually have a great idea at the heart of them that captures something, an emotion or an idea. And I suppose it’s that side of things that is most fascinating - anyone can write a crap song but writing a great song, now wouldn’t that be great?
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Some of my most favorite songs (not mine) have sh*t for lyrics. I mean, if you can understand them in the first place. Seriously, I'm a melody girl. I like a good beat/bassline and some nice piano and rhythm guitar. I also realized a lot of my favorite songs are either very syncopated or have horn sections. A catchy hook that sticks in your head.

But that is me. It may not work for others.

And? I may steal the dead poets idea. LOL! My lyrics are only okay.
 
Dzilizzi said:
. . .And? I may steal the dead poets idea.
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Those dead poets truly are a smorgasbord of lyrical prompts. . . but don't forget about current events (not necessarily politics)

For example, the lyrics of Bruce Springsteen's "Nebraska," the title track from his Nebraska album, are included in the past few poetry anthologies published by Norton. As you are likely aware, it is about Charles Starkweather's murderous spree in the 50s

(Okay, kind of a gruesome example, but there is a LOT to be mined, ripped from the headlines, as it were; motivated Woody Guthrie & Pete Seeger back in the day)
 
Dzilizzi said:
Some of my most favorite songs (not mine) have sh*t for lyrics. I mean, if you can understand them in the first place. Seriously, I'm a melody girl. I like a good beat/bassline and some nice piano and rhythm guitar. ...
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I read the following quote a few years ago and try to remind myself every once in a while. This is from Allee Willis who co-wrote the EW&F hit "September." She was frustrated that Maurice wouldn't get rid of some filler.

"And finally, when it was so obvious that he was not going to do it, I just said, 'What the f- – – does 'ba-dee-ya' mean?' And he essentially said, 'Who the f- – – cares?'" she says. "I learned my greatest lesson ever in songwriting from him, which was never let the lyric get in the way of the groove."
 
All my songs have come from my life. A girlfriend tells me she doesn't love me anymore and walks out the door, never to be seen again. That was worth two or three songs. Or those months I was working on a movie location, with few friends, in a country where I didn't speak the language. Feeling very lonely. But I had an M1 in my hotel room...

And now I am in my 70s. I'm more reflective and my life is much more sedate. There are a lot of things that I'm looking back on. So many stories.

My songs all come from ideas. I have a list of over 20 of them, that I'm always adding to. Some have titles, some have some melodies--but it's largely: I'd like to make a song out of what happened that night when my ex-wife kicked me out on Christmas eve and I couldn't get a hotel room in New York. That kind of thing. Put it on the list. I like to tell stories in my songs, so is there a good beginning, middle, and a bangup end? Okay, that's an idea worth putting on the list. I'm trying to take each one to a finish, as in the past I would do many at once and none would get done.

I actually search for ideas. I try to carry a songwriting notebook everywhere I go. This notebook is only used for my song ideas. I even have a lucky pen. I'll go to the park and let my mind wander. Some people go to the park looking for birds. I look for songs.

While my songs all come from ideas, and I work hard on my lyrics, melody is number one for me. I'm with Max Martin. If you can't find a great melody, it's probably not worth doing.

FYI, there are a few "song starter" books with tons of ways to get going.

 
In most cases, I start with a musical motif, like a bassline or a chord progression, and write the lyrics on top of that. Sometimes the motif is inspired by a story concept, often just a working title to guide me. When it comes to vocals, I do mainly progressive rock, with influences from a whole range of other musical styles. So, I try to tell a story in my lyrics (a bit of a thing in this genre), and often get inspiration from scifi and fantasy books (in the eighties, my symphonic rock band was called Cyborg). Nevertheless, I've done a straight love song occasionally over the last forty years.

Sometimes, when I hit a dark spot of writer's block, I look for an existing track from one of my favorite bands, and use the chords of that song to create an entirely different chord progression. Building from there, you wouldn't recognize the original inspiration even if I pointed it out.
 
Reid Rosefelt said:
All my songs have come from my life. A girlfriend tells me she doesn't love me anymore and walks out the door, never to be seen again. That was worth two or three songs.
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That's probably the way to come up with the best lyrics ... but I've never been able to do it. I've tried, because especially with breakups (in my younger days), that's supposed to be prime lyric fodder. But nope. I can write descriptions, I can tell a story, I can make a joke. But a poet, I don't think I have it in me.

There was even a time when a favorite uncle died, and the service was in their backyard. It was raining, it was emotional, I was seeing relatives I hadn't seen in years, there were so many memories and all sorts of easy imagery to draw from.

This was way out in the country, so I had an hours long drive down country roads through the area where I grew up, windshield wipers thump-thumping, the stories we all told were fresh in my mind, I had all these emotions in my head ... opportunities don't get more golden. So I really tried. I really tried. But nothin'.

What I find odd about this is that I've written lots of lyrics about fictitious people's situations. Director/producer gives me the details, or I can even make them up. By no means am I a great lyricist, but some of them turned out pretty good, if I do say so myself. My own situations, though, I just get stuck.

Not to get too "therapist" with this, but I'm thinking this is because with my own life, I have a tendency to get very analytical. Why did we break up? Would my life really be better if I compromised more? Why do men and women think so differently, and does she really want me to be not so masculine?

So in the moment, I'm not thinking about any of the poetry stuff, like missing the smell of her perfume. Or the way she looks in that white sun dress. Or the way she feels when I hold her. Sure, I'll miss those things, but my head is strictly business - "Why did this happen?" And, "Where do I go from here?" And, "Okay dummy, if you liked her so much, then why did you get caught making out with her sister?" (Sorry. Can't resist a little joke. Which I guess also contributes to my struggles at serious writing.)
 
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Mike Greene said:
That's probably the way to come up with the best lyrics ... but I've never been able to do it. I've tried, because especially with breakups, that's supposed to prime lyric fodder. But nope. I can write descriptions, I can tell a story, I can make a joke. But a poet, I don't think I have it in me.

There was even a time when a favorite uncle died, and the service was in their backyard. It was raining, it was emotional, I was seeing relatives I hadn't seen in years, there so many memories and all sorts of easy imagery to draw from.

This was way out in the country, so I had an hours long drive down country roads through the area where I grew up, windshield wipers thump-thumping, the stories we all told were fresh in my mind, I had all these emotions in my head ... opportunities don't get more golden. So I really tried. But nothin'.

What I find odd about this is that I've written lots of lyrics about fictitious people's situations. Director/producer gives me the details, or I can even make them up. By no means am I a great lyricist, but some of them turned out pretty good, if I do say so myself. My own situations, though, I just get stuck.

Not to get too "therapist" with this, but I'm thinking this is because with my own life, I have a tendency to get very analytical. Why did we break up? Would my life really be better if I compromised more? Why do men and women think so differently, and does she really want me to be not so masculine?

So in the moment, I'm not thinking about any of the poetry stuff, like missing the smell of her perfume. Or the way she looks in that white sun dress. Or the way she feels when I hold her. Sure, I'll miss those things, but my head is strictly business - "Okay dummy, if you liked her so much, then why did you get caught making out with her sister?" (Sorry. Can't resist a little joke. Which I guess also contributes to my struggles at serious writing.)
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That's fascinating. I've never written anything that wasn't about myself.

One of the songs I'm writing now started with a title. The two words came to me and I thought they'd be a cool title for a pop song.

But then I had to ask, "what's the story?" and not just "what is this song about?" but also "who is this about?" And I have to find something about myself that I can draw on to create a complicated character that seems real. I need to know who I'm writing about and what makes him tick.

When I was a teenager I was seriously considering a career as an actor. I've had some method training. So maybe that's where my songwriting approach comes from.

The way you work, Mike, demonstrates what I believe: there is no one way to write a song. All approaches are good--the only thing that matters is the result.
 
My original songs are rarely about myself because I don't have a lifetime of thrilling love stories and gut-wrenching heartbreak to draw from. My life is (intentionally) simple and unchanging. While I've watched a lot of my friends go through relationships, marriages, divorces, raising kids, changing jobs, traveling around, etc. my life has moved along relatively slowly. As a result, none of these original songs of mine were inspired by any particular person or any personal experience of mine. I just made them up from scratch:
  • The Love of a Father - Song about a father-daughter bond
  • My Daddy Lives On - Song about a daughter strengthened by her father's wisdom
  • Broken Mirrors - Song about accepting and moving on from divorce
  • How Much I Love You - Generic love song
  • I'm Yours - Song about lamenting a lost love
  • Emergency - Sultry song of passion
  • A Christmas She'll Remember - Song about betrothal during hard times
  • Santa, Don't Sneeze! - Whimsical
  • Fifteen More Miles - Song about coming home for the holidays
  • Angel of Christmas - Song of missing someone at Christmas
  • Christmas Shopping Fool - Whimsical
  • New Year's Kiss - Song about missing someone on New Year's Eve
  • To Fall In Love with You - Generic love song

But sometimes a song is inspired by a personal experience or someone I know:
  • Cruisin' in My Crown Vic - Inspired by my days as a cruiser in the late 1980s
  • Autumn in the Meadow - Inspired by the scenery I enjoy while biking
  • My Little Black Kitten - Inspired by the untimely loss of a pet
  • Light the Way - Inspired by faith during COVID
  • In This Quiet Refuge - Inspired by a friend's struggle with faith and mental health
  • Play From Your Heart - Inspired by a true story from my dad's childhood

I reckon if I had a more upheaval and drama in my life, I'd write more songs about me, but I'm OK with the fact most of my songs are entirely fictional. As long as they move people by connecting them with their own memories, then they've done their job.
 
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